Thanks for the smile. I doubt either Maestro B could have ever envisioned a rendition of their masterpiece’s like this. But, I bet when they saw it a smile came across their faces just like the one that came across mine.
Thanks again Miss Rita… you too Jim Henson (great; another Jim to throw into the mix) - and where would any of us be without the Maestro B’s who inspired this whole entry. Classical Music Rocks!!! At least that's how this Jim sees it.
I think Beaker has very good hand position on the violin, especially since he only has 4 fingers! His singing voice however...not so much. But what soul!!! ;-)
I'm not sure if this is the correct venue for concert requests as I doubt you are in charge of it (do you musicians have a say?) but I think y'all should do a concert of the Brahms Hungarian dances and Dvorak's Slavonic dances. Countless beautiful melodies would make for a super-enjoyable evening I think.
Hi Rita, I was manning the crow’s nest again last Thursday night for the HSO concert of Beethoven and Sierra with Leonard Slatkin conducting. I thought I would stop by and share an observation I had of the concert. Even though I am tagging this on to an old post I do believe the topic of classical music being dead or alive is appropriate for my remarks.
It’s not offend when, before the concert, the usher stands in front of your section and announces that going to the rest room during the intermission is probably going to be a good idea. At that point I knew this was not going to be a typical evening with the HSO.
When I arrived home after the concert, just out of curiosity, I ran a google search on “the longest piece of music ever written”. Of course Wagner’s Rings came up in the first group. But that’s an opera; you have singing and acting and stage set’s to look at while the music is going on. Then there was John Aglethorpe's Ode to the Monotony of Life with a stated length of just three minutes under a full year. And a lighthouse in the Trinity Buoy Wharf area of the East End of London started playing a single composition on 1 January 2000. It will continue to play, without repetition, until the 31st December 2999. That’s right…no type-o’s here; 1000 years. But the last two are computer generated. That's not really “music” is it?
I know that Strauss’s Ein Heldenlaben is around forty minutes long. And there is John Pickard’s Gaia Symphony, for brass band, at 56 minutes. But the usher Thursday night started the length of Roberto Sierra’s Missa Latina (Pro Pace) was 75 minutes. I started mapping out my route to the rest room right there and then.
I am pleased to say that Missa Latina is a fascinating composition and I thoroughly enjoyed it. But then I am a trained classical musician and comprehended a lot of the intricacies going on in the piece. After about the thirty minute mark I could tell the same didn’t hold true for some of my fellow audience members. The elderly couples started to trickle out at first. That was understandable though; sitting for that long might be uncomfortable for them. But at the forty to forty five minute mark some of the younger couples politely stood between movements to leave. Including the one couple that looked like they should have been going to a Wynonna Judd concert; he with hair pulled straight back in a pony tail half way down his back and plaid shirt tightly tucked into snug belted blue jean; she in a orange tent dress and proofed straight red hair past her shoulders. Now there is something you don’t see everyday at a symphony concert. But you have to give them credit for trying out the classical scene.
This was all in the balcony though; no one would really notice. But at the fifty minute mark I started to see some of the main floor patrons start to leave as well. Now don’t get me wrong here, I am not knocking the music at all. It was brilliant and the HSO’s performance was superb. I just think composures need to look at the over all length of a piece from the not so musical perspective of the audience members. If they really want their music to live or die that is. Even for a classically trained musician such as myself; I started wondering, why am I paying so much attention to what the audience is doing instead of listening to the music. Seventy five minutes is a long time – even for me.
One other thing I noticed that evening. Sitting way up in the crow’s nest; if I held my hand up just right I could hide you behind my thumb. Not that I was trying to hide you behind anything. I was also hiding Maestro Slatkin behind my thumb. The thing there was that even though his body was covered I could see his arms out to the sides of my thumb. That made it look like my thumb was conducting the Houston Symphony Orchestra. That was pretty cool. (Like I said; 75 minutes does give your mind plenty of time to wander, no matter how good the performance is.)
See you again on May 14th Miss Rita (WOW, Respighi’s Pines of Rome. I can’t wait.) From the crow’s nest of HSO’s musical sailing vessel Jones Hall, Jim
(Sorry for such a long post. I hope you don’t mind.)
John: we have done programs like that. They are fun to play. Your best bet for something like that would be to check out our summer programs.
Jim: your post was almost as long as the concert. ;-)
I remember on Thurs I looked out into the audience around 65 minutes in when MY attention was slightly waning. At that point I saw ten people flee. Saturday night there was a couple in the front row that were obviously plotting how much longer was left based on the text. This discussion went on quite some time!
I ultimately liked the piece but I agree that there could be an abridged version- a tasting menu, more pop, smaller portions!
Since both you and Jim play for the HSO, perhaps you might know the answer to this question. Why does the Houston Symphony play pieces of music like Sierra's Missa Latina? Are they trying to increase their audience? I'm not a musician, so I can't really appreciate the 'technical' aspect of the piece. In all honesty, I haven't quite heard the entire piece (John--he and I are brothers--and I left during intermission!!). But what I have heard of it did not sound like anything I would pay to hear again--or even want to hear again. If I was new to the symphony that night (especially considering how Beethoven was first on the program), I probably wouldn't have gone back. Wouldn't it have attracted more people--and made people more inclined to return--had they performed Beethoven's Missa Solemnis or Mass in C? Besides, there are many other works by Beethoven that are on the same scale in terms of orchestration and length that never seem to be performed. These include the 2 cantatas for Leopold II and Joseph II and the complete incidental music to The Ruins of Athens, King Stephan, Creatures of Prometheus, and the Consecration of the House (though, if I recall correctly, the music of the last piece is very similar to the music from Ruins of Athens). To the HSO's credit, they did recently perform the incidental music to Egmont.
Rita, Please allow me to set some things straight here.
This is the Jim who wrote the “Missa Latina” of blog post above. JohnVS; if only dreams could come true I would be playing for the Houston Symphony. But alas, now I only “pay” for the Houston Symphony. I do possess the ability to play for the HSO - he said with a coy smile of self confidence - but I lack the academic credentials. In college I was led astray by the bright lights, fancy parties and high-life of show business and never finished my music degree. Dang fool kid is what I call myself now when I look back on those days. Hey, but if you ever need someone to play the lead bone part on Glenn Miller’s “In the Mood” I’m the guy to call.
Sorry Rita, I hope you don’t mind me taking the time to straighten this out. But I do have an opinion on JamesVS’s question if you would allow me. (Don’t worry Miss Rita; it won’t hurt my feeling one bit if you don’t post this.)
The way I see it; it is the responsibility – even duty – of a major symphony orchestra to perform all major classical works of significance for the general public to hear. In the last few decades Roberto Sierra has immerged as one of the major classical composures of modern times. Even thought entertainment is a very important part of any “for profit” musical organization; education also falls under the parameters of what a symphony orchestra is to provide.
JamesVS - to put it in a form of musical theatre jargon; one might look at this concert as the Beethoven being the spoon full of sugar that helps the medicine - Missa Latina - go down. But let me tell you; Roberto Sierra’s Missa Latina is on fine piece of modern day classical composition. And… the HSO’s presentation of Beethoven’s Eight was truly a spoon full of sugar.
Thanks for your tolerance Rita, ChimneySweepJim :)
You have a very good point. The HSO should provide a wide range of classical music for educational purposes. However, it is my opinion that just because a piece of music is played by an orchestra does not mean it necessarily qualifies as classical. I would argue that the Missa Latina, with its apparent incorporation of genres outside of classical music, comes excruciatingly close to falling short of being considered "classical." I know, however, that many people in the world of classical music think otherwise--thus the reason for the (hopefully temporary) success of composers like Roberto Sierra, John Adams, Philip Glass, etc.
Speaking of the HSO's duty to provide a type of classical music "education" to its audience, don't you think this "education" could include more lesser known works of wellknown composers? Take, for instance, the pieces I previously mentioned (by Beethoven). I can add to them Calm Sea and Prosperous Voyage, Bundeslied, Ah! Perfidio, The Glorious Moment, etc. I would guess that most people who attend HSO performances are unaware that most of these pieces by Beethoven exist. Shouldn't they be educated on them? The same could be said for many other composers. Just because they wrote some pieces of music that became pillars of the classical genre does not mean that their lesser known works should be foreshadowed by some new random piece of music composed by a gentleman eager to set himself apart from the elite club of classical composers.
BTW: Not only do I lack any education in music, I also completely lack the ability to read music--so I could never play a note with the HSO! Actually, I took one class at UH on the history of classical music. The teacher wasn't any good, though. We covered Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven in a single day. Philip Glass got a class period all to himself.
So Miss Rita, Do you ever wake with the feeling you might be losing control of your blog? But as a blogmeister I am sure your first intention is to inspire conversation - job well done.
I tip my hat to a Beethoven aficionado such as yourself JamesVS. Although you might lack formal education in music I can see you have a passion for the classical period and spent a lot of time studying on your own. I must apologize for two things in my previous post I feel might have been misleading; that being the term “classical music” and the word ‘education”.
I used the term classical music in a more colloquial manner as to describe a variety of Western musical styles from the ninth century to the present. As your teacher did in the music history classes at UofH. Not… to specify a specific time between the Baroque and Romantic periods of music. As to the word education; maybe I should have said that it is the duty of a major symphony orchestra to keep their audience up to the times with all the fabulous new music being composed today. Semantics can pose a sizable obstacle to any conversation I have to say.
Now; If you would be so kind as to let me say that your comments do smack of personal preference. And there is nothing wrong with that. I, for one, am delighted you are stating you personal preferences here for us to discuss and every one else to read. I hope Rita is also. But a symphony orchestra cannot set its play list on anyone’s personal preferences. In lieu of all the "great points" you brought up I think this is where politics comes in to the picture and sets the program of music to be performed.
I feel the main reason Missa Latina was performed on the concert being discussed is because (just so you know; I’m sequencing right now in preparations for hisses and boo’s and rocks being thrown) this piece was commissioned by Leonard Slatkin and the National Symphony Orchestra. Now when somebody pays that kind of money for a piece of music, surely, they are going to want to perform it as many times as possible - no matter what the preferences are of the audience. I would say the first thing Maestro Slatkin said when offered a quest conductor spot for the HSO is, “I know; we can play Missa Latina.”
Sorry, I mean no offence to anyone with these remarks. But hey, I do think one way to make this piece more popular with the “general public” is to hand out tee shirt to everyone who stayed for the entire performance with the words “Missy Latina; I listened to the whole thing”
I’ve enjoyed our conversation JamesVS. I’d be happy to continue but let’s make it in the crow’s nest on May 14’th instead of imposing on Rita’s hospitality anymore. MEZZC… Row G/Seat10. Rispighi’s Pines of Rome – everybody’s is going to love this one.
Thanks Rita for providing the forum.
Jim
(You know Rita; you are much more educated, knowledgeable and smarter than either JamesVS or I on these matters. Maybe you could educate us on what people behind-the-scenes of one of America’s top orchestras thinks about this :)
Just a quick clarification. My use of the term "classical" was actually a general reference to what people generally call classical music, not the Classical era. While Beethoven began during the Classical period in music, I think it's safe to say that he was the primary composer to usher in the Romantic era.
Certainly, my comments are all about my personal preference! I know many people do not agree with me. However, I've also met plenty of people who do agree with me.
Posts
11 comments:
Wow.... just wow.... that is histerical...
very funny!
Thanks for the smile. I doubt either Maestro B could have ever envisioned a rendition of their masterpiece’s like this. But, I bet when they saw it a smile came across their faces just like the one that came across mine.
Thanks again Miss Rita… you too Jim Henson (great; another Jim to throw into the mix) - and where would any of us be without the Maestro B’s who inspired this whole entry.
Classical Music Rocks!!!
At least that's how this Jim sees it.
I think Beaker has very good hand position on the violin, especially since he only has 4 fingers! His singing voice however...not so much. But what soul!!! ;-)
Hey Rita,
I'm not sure if this is the correct venue for concert requests as I doubt you are in charge of it (do you musicians have a say?) but I think y'all should do a concert of the Brahms Hungarian dances and Dvorak's Slavonic dances. Countless beautiful melodies would make for a super-enjoyable evening I think.
-John PS
Hi Rita,
I was manning the crow’s nest again last Thursday night for the HSO concert of Beethoven and Sierra with Leonard Slatkin conducting. I thought I would stop by and share an observation I had of the concert. Even though I am tagging this on to an old post I do believe the topic of classical music being dead or alive is appropriate for my remarks.
It’s not offend when, before the concert, the usher stands in front of your section and announces that going to the rest room during the intermission is probably going to be a good idea. At that point I knew this was not going to be a typical evening with the HSO.
When I arrived home after the concert, just out of curiosity, I ran a google search on “the longest piece of music ever written”. Of course Wagner’s Rings came up in the first group. But that’s an opera; you have singing and acting and stage set’s to look at while the music is going on. Then there was John Aglethorpe's Ode to the Monotony of Life with a stated length of just three minutes under a full year. And a lighthouse in the Trinity Buoy Wharf area of the East End of London started playing a single composition on 1 January 2000. It will continue to play, without repetition, until the 31st December 2999. That’s right…no type-o’s here; 1000 years. But the last two are computer generated. That's not really “music” is it?
I know that Strauss’s Ein Heldenlaben is around forty minutes long. And there is John Pickard’s Gaia Symphony, for brass band, at 56 minutes. But the usher Thursday night started the length of Roberto Sierra’s Missa Latina (Pro Pace) was 75 minutes. I started mapping out my route to the rest room right there and then.
I am pleased to say that Missa Latina is a fascinating composition and I thoroughly enjoyed it. But then I am a trained classical musician and comprehended a lot of the intricacies going on in the piece. After about the thirty minute mark I could tell the same didn’t hold true for some of my fellow audience members. The elderly couples started to trickle out at first. That was understandable though; sitting for that long might be uncomfortable for them. But at the forty to forty five minute mark some of the younger couples politely stood between movements to leave. Including the one couple that looked like they should have been going to a Wynonna Judd concert; he with hair pulled straight back in a pony tail half way down his back and plaid shirt tightly tucked into snug belted blue jean; she in a orange tent dress and proofed straight red hair past her shoulders. Now there is something you don’t see everyday at a symphony concert. But you have to give them credit for trying out the classical scene.
This was all in the balcony though; no one would really notice. But at the fifty minute mark I started to see some of the main floor patrons start to leave as well. Now don’t get me wrong here, I am not knocking the music at all. It was brilliant and the HSO’s performance was superb. I just think composures need to look at the over all length of a piece from the not so musical perspective of the audience members. If they really want their music to live or die that is. Even for a classically trained musician such as myself; I started wondering, why am I paying so much attention to what the audience is doing instead of listening to the music. Seventy five minutes is a long time – even for me.
One other thing I noticed that evening. Sitting way up in the crow’s nest; if I held my hand up just right I could hide you behind my thumb. Not that I was trying to hide you behind anything. I was also hiding Maestro Slatkin behind my thumb. The thing there was that even though his body was covered I could see his arms out to the sides of my thumb. That made it look like my thumb was conducting the Houston Symphony Orchestra. That was pretty cool. (Like I said; 75 minutes does give your mind plenty of time to wander, no matter how good the performance is.)
See you again on May 14th Miss Rita (WOW, Respighi’s Pines of Rome. I can’t wait.)
From the crow’s nest of HSO’s musical sailing vessel Jones Hall,
Jim
(Sorry for such a long post. I hope you don’t mind.)
Hi everyone!
John: we have done programs like that. They are fun to play. Your best bet for something like that would be to check out our summer programs.
Jim: your post was almost as long as the concert. ;-)
I remember on Thurs I looked out into the audience around 65 minutes in when MY attention was slightly waning. At that point I saw ten people flee. Saturday night there was a couple in the front row that were obviously plotting how much longer was left based on the text. This discussion went on quite some time!
I ultimately liked the piece but I agree that there could be an abridged version- a tasting menu, more pop, smaller portions!
Hi Rita,
Since both you and Jim play for the HSO, perhaps you might know the answer to this question. Why does the Houston Symphony play pieces of music like Sierra's Missa Latina? Are they trying to increase their audience? I'm not a musician, so I can't really appreciate the 'technical' aspect of the piece. In all honesty, I haven't quite heard the entire piece (John--he and I are brothers--and I left during intermission!!). But what I have heard of it did not sound like anything I would pay to hear again--or even want to hear again. If I was new to the symphony that night (especially considering how Beethoven was first on the program), I probably wouldn't have gone back. Wouldn't it have attracted more people--and made people more inclined to return--had they performed Beethoven's Missa Solemnis or Mass in C? Besides, there are many other works by Beethoven that are on the same scale in terms of orchestration and length that never seem to be performed. These include the 2 cantatas for Leopold II and Joseph II and the complete incidental music to The Ruins of Athens, King Stephan, Creatures of Prometheus, and the Consecration of the House (though, if I recall correctly, the music of the last piece is very similar to the music from Ruins of Athens). To the HSO's credit, they did recently perform the incidental music to Egmont.
Can you tell I like Beethoven??
Regards,
James
Rita,
Please allow me to set some things straight here.
This is the Jim who wrote the “Missa Latina” of blog post above. JohnVS; if only dreams could come true I would be playing for the Houston Symphony. But alas, now I only “pay” for the Houston Symphony. I do possess the ability to play for the HSO - he said with a coy smile of self confidence - but I lack the academic credentials. In college I was led astray by the bright lights, fancy parties and high-life of show business and never finished my music degree. Dang fool kid is what I call myself now when I look back on those days. Hey, but if you ever need someone to play the lead bone part on Glenn Miller’s “In the Mood” I’m the guy to call.
Sorry Rita, I hope you don’t mind me taking the time to straighten this out. But I do have an opinion on JamesVS’s question if you would allow me. (Don’t worry Miss Rita; it won’t hurt my feeling one bit if you don’t post this.)
The way I see it; it is the responsibility – even duty – of a major symphony orchestra to perform all major classical works of significance for the general public to hear. In the last few decades Roberto Sierra has immerged as one of the major classical composures of modern times. Even thought entertainment is a very important part of any “for profit” musical organization; education also falls under the parameters of what a symphony orchestra is to provide.
JamesVS - to put it in a form of musical theatre jargon; one might look at this concert as the Beethoven being the spoon full of sugar that helps the medicine - Missa Latina - go down. But let me tell you; Roberto Sierra’s Missa Latina is on fine piece of modern day classical composition. And… the HSO’s presentation of Beethoven’s Eight was truly a spoon full of sugar.
Thanks for your tolerance Rita,
ChimneySweepJim :)
Greetings Jim,
You have a very good point. The HSO should provide a wide range of classical music for educational purposes. However, it is my opinion that just because a piece of music is played by an orchestra does not mean it necessarily qualifies as classical. I would argue that the Missa Latina, with its apparent incorporation of genres outside of classical music, comes excruciatingly close to falling short of being considered "classical." I know, however, that many people in the world of classical music think otherwise--thus the reason for the (hopefully temporary) success of composers like Roberto Sierra, John Adams, Philip Glass, etc.
Speaking of the HSO's duty to provide a type of classical music "education" to its audience, don't you think this "education" could include more lesser known works of wellknown composers? Take, for instance, the pieces I previously mentioned (by Beethoven). I can add to them Calm Sea and Prosperous Voyage, Bundeslied, Ah! Perfidio, The Glorious Moment, etc. I would guess that most people who attend HSO performances are unaware that most of these pieces by Beethoven exist. Shouldn't they be educated on them? The same could be said for many other composers. Just because they wrote some pieces of music that became pillars of the classical genre does not mean that their lesser known works should be foreshadowed by some new random piece of music composed by a gentleman eager to set himself apart from the elite club of classical composers.
BTW: Not only do I lack any education in music, I also completely lack the ability to read music--so I could never play a note with the HSO! Actually, I took one class at UH on the history of classical music. The teacher wasn't any good, though. We covered Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven in a single day. Philip Glass got a class period all to himself.
JamesVS
So Miss Rita,
Do you ever wake with the feeling you might be losing control of your blog? But as a blogmeister I am sure your first intention is to inspire conversation - job well done.
I tip my hat to a Beethoven aficionado such as yourself JamesVS. Although you might lack formal education in music I can see you have a passion for the classical period and spent a lot of time studying on your own. I must apologize for two things in my previous post I feel might have been misleading; that being the term “classical music” and the word ‘education”.
I used the term classical music in a more colloquial manner as to describe a variety of Western musical styles from the ninth century to the present. As your teacher did in the music history classes at UofH. Not… to specify a specific time between the Baroque and Romantic periods of music. As to the word education; maybe I should have said that it is the duty of a major symphony orchestra to keep their audience up to the times with all the fabulous new music being composed today. Semantics can pose a sizable obstacle to any conversation I have to say.
Now; If you would be so kind as to let me say that your comments do smack of personal preference. And there is nothing wrong with that. I, for one, am delighted you are stating you personal preferences here for us to discuss and every one else to read. I hope Rita is also. But a symphony orchestra cannot set its play list on anyone’s personal preferences. In lieu of all the "great points" you brought up I think this is where politics comes in to the picture and sets the program of music to be performed.
I feel the main reason Missa Latina was performed on the concert being discussed is because (just so you know; I’m sequencing right now in preparations for hisses and boo’s and rocks being thrown) this piece was commissioned by Leonard Slatkin and the National Symphony Orchestra. Now when somebody pays that kind of money for a piece of music, surely, they are going to want to perform it as many times as possible - no matter what the preferences are of the audience. I would say the first thing Maestro Slatkin said when offered a quest conductor spot for the HSO is, “I know; we can play Missa Latina.”
Sorry, I mean no offence to anyone with these remarks. But hey, I do think one way to make this piece more popular with the “general public” is to hand out tee shirt to everyone who stayed for the entire performance with the words “Missy Latina; I listened to the whole thing”
I’ve enjoyed our conversation JamesVS. I’d be happy to continue but let’s make it in the crow’s nest on May 14’th instead of imposing on Rita’s hospitality anymore. MEZZC… Row G/Seat10. Rispighi’s Pines of Rome – everybody’s is going to love this one.
Thanks Rita for providing the forum.
Jim
(You know Rita; you are much more educated, knowledgeable and smarter than either JamesVS or I on these matters. Maybe you could educate us on what people behind-the-scenes of one of America’s top orchestras thinks about this :)
Just a quick clarification. My use of the term "classical" was actually a general reference to what people generally call classical music, not the Classical era. While Beethoven began during the Classical period in music, I think it's safe to say that he was the primary composer to usher in the Romantic era.
Certainly, my comments are all about my personal preference! I know many people do not agree with me. However, I've also met plenty of people who do agree with me.
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